That’s what Aurora CEO (and ex-Google self-driving car project lead) Chris Urmson had to say about Elon Musk’s technological approach to autonomous vehicles. Musk is gearing up to reveal Tesla’s first robotaxi at an event in Hollywood Thursday. But Urmson’s been working on this problem for his entire career, having led Carnegie Mellon’s team during the original DARPA challenges. Listen to this interview to get a more thoughtful idea of the challenges of autonomous driving.